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Recently AlLnAtuRalX joined the #World of Minecraft IRC channel to have a discussion about the PR problems that he percieves World of Minecraft has with the general Minecraft regulars and server admins. What follows is a reasonably intense discussion about what we are supposedly doing wrong and what we could do better to fix things from his point of view.
[11:29] <AlLnAtuRalX> Hey guys. I just want to tell you, as admin of one of the longest standing Minecraft servers (since June 4 or so IIRC), I hate what you are doing to the community. Openly distributing hacks, regardless of legality, is deplorable and is ruining the game. In my opinion, you guys should not only be ashamed of yourselves but should reconsider your actions and issue an apology to the community at large. From all those who agree
[11:29] <AlLnAtuRalX> with me, here's a big "f*** you" to World of Minecraft and all its admins.
[11:29] <Vero> cool story bro
[11:30] <Visiiri> He's right.
[11:30] <Visiiri> You do sort of behave like douche bags to Notch's hard work.
[11:31] <AlLnAtuRalX> In my opinion, besides the original hacks, you guys are the worse thing that has happened to this community yet.
[11:32] <AlLnAtuRalX> Especially whoever had the genius f***ing idea of writing the hacks and distributing them for publicity. It speaks miles that you have such a sh*t server you feel the need to resort to cheap, low-class promotion mechanisms which harm the community you pretend to be involved in.
[11:32] <AlLnAtuRalX> Your server is a joke and an insult.
[11:33] <Visiiri> Unfortunately, Allnatrual, it will do absolutely nothing.
[11:33] <AlLnAtuRalX> I don't care.
[11:33] <AlLnAtuRalX> Why would I? I don't validate myself by having f***ing retards act on my opinions; in fact, they are the least likely to see reason, being the scum of the community. They will probably find it funny.
[11:34] <AlLnAtuRalX> I just want them to know that not everyone is tricked and amused by their bullsh*t.
[11:34] <triddin> Hi
[11:34] <Iguana> They aren't even retort back, because they know it's all right.
[11:34] <Visiiri> Yes, but I feel that stopping it would be nice.
[11:34] <triddin> What do you need Visiiri ?
[11:34] <Visiiri> Oh
[11:34] <geekahedron> amidst all the venom, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make
[11:34] <Visiiri> Well now everyone is here
[11:34] <Visiiri> so I'll say in PM
[11:35] <Visiiri> cah
[11:35] <Visiiri> T.T
[11:35] <triddin> Ok
[11:35] <Visiiri> Problem
[11:35] <AlLnAtuRalX> My point is that their open distribution of hacks as a cheap promotion mechanism is ruining the community.
[11:35] <Visiiri> IDK how on xchat
[11:35] <AlLnAtuRalX> How much clearer should my writing have been
[11:35] <AlLnAtuRalX> ?*
[11:35] <geekahedron> the hacks were openly distributed before World of Minecraft had them
[11:35] <Visiiri> Yes, but not as many people.
[11:35] <AlLnAtuRalX> Yeah, and CPColin is a d*** for doing it as well, but that website was harder to come by
[11:36] <Visiiri> Much.
[11:36] <AlLnAtuRalX> And yes, I am a goon and have been for a long time if anyone cares
[11:36] <triddin> Want me to start PM to you Visiiri?
[11:36] <geekahedron> a .. goon?
[11:36] <Visiiri> Yeah
[11:36] <Visiiri> that would be nice
[11:37] <H4X> urbandictionary: Goon
[11:37] <H4X>
[11:37] <H4X> Someone hired to rough someone up, usually someone big and dumb who commits acts of violence for money.
[11:37] <AlLnAtuRalX> You know what I mean.
[11:38] <AlLnAtuRalX> Also, putting a 4 in your name does not make you 1337, contrary to word in the elementary school playground.
[11:38] <geekahedron> that's what I was thinking, a lackey or pawn
[11:38] <AlLnAtuRalX> If you need a shoulder to cry on, Mommy is in the parlor.
[11:38] <H4X> So its a personal attack?
[11:38] <geekahedron> but contextually it didn't make much sense
[11:38] <AlLnAtuRalX> Not at all, I'm just pointing that out
[11:38] <H4X> Seems that your just personally upset with us?
[11:38] <AlLnAtuRalX> It's more an attack on your actions, as well as that of all the World of Minecraft admins.
[11:38] <AlLnAtuRalX> Yes, I am to an extent
[11:38] <H4X> Perhaps upset our server is doing so well?
[11:39] <AlLnAtuRalX> You guys are visibly destroying the game I put so much time in
[11:39] <geekahedron> speaking from a position of ignorance then
[11:39] <AlLnAtuRalX> Doing well? f*** that. You don't even know what that means
[11:39] <H4X> err.. ok
[11:39] <AlLnAtuRalX> I doubt you were even around when I started playing here
[11:39] <Vero> So because some people think that a game is more fun one way than another, it's a bad thing?
[11:39] <H4X> It's funny coz hes probably using World of Minecraft Client despite this.
[11:39] <AlLnAtuRalX> What? More fun with hacks? Don't you see what you're doing?
[11:40] <Vero> Customizing a game I paid for?
[11:40] <Visiiri> Allnatrual
[11:40] <AlLnAtuRalX> H4X, I used CPColin's standalone and flying.exe for about a week before they were public
[11:40] <Visiiri> Wait till notch gets back
[11:40] <H4X> cool
[11:40] <AlLnAtuRalX> Customizing my f***ing ass. Keep it to yourself
[11:40] <geekahedron> we didn't make the hacks, and that is not in the least what World of Minecraft is about
[11:40] <Visiiri> When he does, he will patch them
[11:40] <Visiiri> so they are optional
[11:40] <AlLnAtuRalX> No, it's just a cheap promotion tactic to me. But I don't give a sh*t; what I do give a sh*t about is their effect on the game.
[11:40] <Visiiri> I know, massive things aren't that great now.
[11:41] <H4X> We find our customers come to us for 'freedom'
[11:41] <AlLnAtuRalX> And griefers can take out 1/2 a server in a matter of seconds
[11:41] <H4X> and leave happy satisfied.
[11:41] <AlLnAtuRalX> Funny. A crack dealer could use the same f***ing excuse.
[11:41] <Visiiri> H4X, I understand
[11:41] <Visiiri> But you are caring about the wellfare of your server
[11:41] <Visiiri> and destroying that of others
[11:41] <AlLnAtuRalX> agreed
[11:41] <Visiiri> Being selfish isn't my problem
[11:41] <geekahedron> we don't advertise the "hacks" to get people to come to our server
[11:41] <Visiiri> I don't have a problem with it being public either.
[11:41] <AlLnAtuRalX> Visiiri, he wouldn't know.
[11:42] <AlLnAtuRalX> He never played before the hacks I bet
[11:42] <Visiiri> yeah he did
[11:42] <Visiiri> I played with him
[11:42] <H4X> geek is correct
[11:42] <AlLnAtuRalX> My condolences
[11:42] <H4X> we dont actively advertise the hacks
[11:42] <AlLnAtuRalX> So what? It's on your f***ing website!
[11:42] <AlLnAtuRalX> That's advertisement if I've seen it!
[11:42] <H4X> inface our homepage doesnt mention the word hack at all
[11:42] <H4X> infact*
[11:42] <Visiiri> Allnatural, please calm down.
[11:42] <AlLnAtuRalX> "wrapper". Do you feel better?
[11:42] <AlLnAtuRalX> sh*t by any other name is still sh*t man.
[11:42] <H4X> theres no mention of wrapper on our homepage either ;)
[11:42] <Vero> ;D
[11:42] <geekahedron> hosting and advertising are quite different things
[11:43] <Visiiri> And H4X i think it says "Minecraft "hack""
[11:43] <H4X> nope, not on the homepage
[11:43] <H4X> you need to dig in further to see any reference to hack
[11:43] <Visiiri> But you are publicly releasing it on a site that is visited without recomendation just for the hacks
[11:43] <AlLnAtuRalX> Yeah, press downloads
[11:43] <Visiiri> Is it not on the top of the navibar?
[11:43] <jonnyabc> XD wow i missed a lot
[11:43] <AlLnAtuRalX> H4X, you have got my definition of promotion all wrong
[11:43] <Vero> "Visiiri Is it not on the top of the navibar?" <- Not on the home page
[11:43] <H4X> If we were doing as allnatural said and just trying to get ppl to come to World of Minecraft for the hacks, our home page would say HACKS HACKS HACKS!!!!
[11:44] <AlLnAtuRalX> It's right on Downloads
[11:44] <geekahedron> I think you have *the* definition of promotion all wrong
[11:44] <AlLnAtuRalX> you have to use one click
[11:44] <AlLnAtuRalX> Then another to download it
[11:44] <geekahedron> assuming you know it's there and want to download it
[11:44] <geekahedron> how is that promoted or advertised
[11:44] <AlLnAtuRalX> word of mouth is still advertisement. And it promotes your server not vice-versa
[11:44] <AlLnAtuRalX> That was what my cheap promotion was in reference to
[11:44] <geekahedron> *we* don't do that
[11:45] <AlLnAtuRalX> Who put it on the site?
[11:45] <H4X> we cant help it if customers stumble apon it and tell friends how good it is.
[11:45] <AlLnAtuRalX> Who put it on the site?
[11:45] <geekahedron> if people tell other people to get it from our site, well
[11:45] <AlLnAtuRalX> One more time everyone
[11:45] <Fran> idk any of this person in person how will they could promote the "hack"?
[11:45] <AlLnAtuRalX> Who put it on the site?
[11:45] <AlLnAtuRalX> That requires a handle
[11:45] <Visiiri> OK, just to get my side clear, I don't like how EVERYONE flies now, but I'm glad they don't whine about it.
[11:45] <AlLnAtuRalX> Yeah, that is true Visiiri lol
[11:45] <geekahedron> so, having something available that people will want is in and of itself shameless promotion
[11:45] <Iguana> Well, we'll just wait for Notch to come back. I'm sure he'll believe the heart of Minecraft, rather than the low-lifes that use those hacks.
[11:45] <geekahedron> because *naturally* word of mouth will advertise for us
[11:46] <AlLnAtuRalX> if it's tied to World of Minecraft, yes it is
[11:46] <Iguana> Anyways, I'm out.
[11:46] <geekahedron> you are seeing through our transparent diabolical plan
[11:46] <Iguana> I've had enough.
[11:46] <AlLnAtuRalX> I agree Iguana
[11:46] <H4X> Visiiri, not only that, we have notice griefing deminish a great amount too
[11:46] <triddin> Visiiri: It will be fixed with the next server release
[11:46] <H4X> it seems ppl are less bored with the game with hacks and dont fall to griefing for lulz
[11:46] <Visiiri> yeah, tridding
[11:46] <Visiiri> *triddin*
[11:46] <Visiiri> that's why I have no problem with it.
[11:46] <AlLnAtuRalX> Bullsh*t and you know it H4X
[11:46] <triddin> Which will hopefully allow those servers who want fly hacks and don't to do what they want
[11:46] <Visiiri> It's purely optional to allow on your server
[11:46] <AlLnAtuRalX> Since the hacks came out, griefing has at least quadroupled on three servers I frequent
[11:47] <AlLnAtuRalX> Currently it's not Visiiri
[11:47] <AlLnAtuRalX> Which is my problem with it ATM
[11:47] <triddin> the trouble is the community is split, about half the people love the hacks and about half absolutely hat them
[11:47] <Visiiri> Yeah, notch said that it will be optional,
[11:48] <Visiiri> I will not advocate it.
[11:48] <Visiiri> Although I will use it
[11:48] <H4X> I think that is a good move on notches part.
[11:48] <AlLnAtuRalX> thank you so much for f***ing the game over H4X. Sleep well. I have work to do.
[11:48] <Visiiri> Hmmm
[11:48] <Visiiri> Tragic.
[11:48] <H4X> Wish there was more maturity from that boy
[11:48] <jonnyabc> p-r-i-c-k
[11:48] <Scoopade> Indeed :/
[11:48] <Scoopade> There's ways to voice your opinion and there's ways not to.
[11:48] <triddin> he has an opinion
[11:48] <Visiiri> Well, it's not immaturity.
[11:48] * LG_Legacy is now known as LegacylSleep
[11:48] <H4X> We are open to opinions and discusssions all the time
[11:48] <jonnyabc> its funny how ppl are influenced so much by others opinions
[11:48] <triddin> and he's entitled to it
[11:49] <Visiiri> He just sees things from a narrow minded way.
[11:49] <Vero> oh he's gone
[11:49] <Vero> yay
[11:49] <Fran> well you can take some idea from other ppl
[11:49] <Scoopade> Having opinion doesn't give him the right to be aggresive when he isn't getting his way though.
[11:49] <Scoopade> having an*
[11:50] <Visiiri> He will have his way soon.
[11:50] <H4X> Indeed, as I said Im happy with notches path
[11:50] <H4X> if it isnt just a rumor
[11:50] <Fran> I cant enter to worldofminecraft.com
[11:50] <geekahedron> same here
[11:50] <Scoopade> What's in the patch?
[11:50] <Scoopade> Fran, it's down
[11:50] * LegacylSleep looks around
[11:50] <H4X> im glad you see things from both sides of the fence Visiiri
[11:50] <Fran> too?
[11:50] * LegacylSleep notices he isn't there anymore
[11:51] <Scoopade> oh, not WoM
[11:51] <geekahedron> supposedly, allowing servers to choose whether or not to allow hacked clients
[11:51] <Scoopade> don't know, not checked
[11:51] * LegacylSleep really thinks that the guy should take some anger management.
[11:51] <Scoopade> That's probably the best thing to do other than completely blocking them off
[11:51] <geekahedron> personally, I'd like to allow flying but prevent wallhacks/noclip
[11:51] <Scoopade> ^ agreed
[11:51] <geekahedron> but I'm not sure it will work that way
[11:51] <H4X> World of Minecraft works for me ??
[11:51] <Fran> some server when you move really fast, they kick you
[11:51] <LegacylSleep> I think wallhacks will forever exist
[11:52] <LegacylSleep> As long as you can edit textures
[11:52] <jonnyabc> altho it really irritates me because ive figured out a while ago is tht about 48% of ppl who hate hacks is because they cant get them to work and think no1 else should have them,
[11:52] <Visiiri> Wallhacks aren't exactly hacks though
[11:52] <Visiiri> They don't help...
[11:52] <geekahedron> eh?
[11:52] <Visiiri> It's just a nice way to catch griefers.
[11:52] <Scoopade> ;)
[11:52] <geekahedron> wallhacks don't help what
[11:52] <Visiiri> Wallhacks don't help you build, they don't help you run, they don't help in survival
[11:52] <Fran> when they go to open the jail, they see you are not in and they kick you
[11:52] <Scoopade> I assume you're talking about them specifically in relation to this game
[11:53] <Visiiri> No, that's no clipping
[11:53] <Visiiri> a "wallhack" is making the textures part transparent.
[11:53] <Fran> whats the problem with that?
[11:53] <Visiiri> There is none.
[11:53] <Fran> its like all is glass
[11:53] <Visiiri> that's what I'm saying.
[11:53] <geekahedron> but, even seeing blocks you aren't supposed to can be problemous in many situations
[11:53] <Scoopade> Essentially, you can see everyone's builds
[11:54] <Visiiri> So what is the problem?
[11:54] <Scoopade> On normal servers, griefers who wallhack can pinpoint flooding locations if they wanted to
[11:54] <Visiiri> Blocks you can't see?
[11:54] <geekahedron> on a normal server with water physics, wallhacking through the adminblocks to delete the well-placed sponge, for instance
[11:54] <Scoopade> I guess that's the argument against it
[11:54] <Visiiri> geek
[11:54] <Visiiri> not noclipping
[11:54] <Visiiri> "wallhacks"
[11:54] <AlLnAtuRalX> Oh god. Pathetic.
[11:54] * AlLnAtuRalX (kingnerd@pool-72-68-147-71.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has left #World of Minecraft (Leaving)
[11:54] <Visiiri> changing textures
[11:54] <Roadcrosser> hello
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A few of the minecraft members who have been hosting semi-popular servers for a while who have lost their popularity since World of Minecraft showed up are understandably upset and have issues with us.
This is by no means excuses people to come into our IRC and yell out profanities immaturely.
We are a respected organization and we will talk to any person about any matter in a orderly manner.
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The hacks are useful, but they are some little promotional thing so people will join World of Minecraft. If you do not want or can not have the client, people will keep on bothering you. AllNatural is just trying to make Minecraft better (I think). And Admin+ should think about what he is saying before calling him a prick like an 8 year old.
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I didn't call anyone a prick, and I can't really see where any Admin+ did either.
We never promote the hacks outside of the World of Minecraft sphere, when people join our server and ask about them we will tell them about it, we don't advertise it on external sites, or to the general minecraft community via any official or even unofficial conduits.
Obviously we can't control what other unrelated people do, but we try to keep it as close to World of Minecraft as possible. We also don't just make it openly downloadable, but require you to be a member first.
But the problem here isn't one with Minecraft, or even that the Minecraft protocol/server allows hacks. It's purely a problem of control. The server doesn't allow fine-grained control of users and what they can or cannot do.
Anyhow, I'm sick of arguing this point. All I get back is "Notch is great, World of Minecraft sucks" despite the fact that our server model has time and again proved itself to be adequate defense against griefers.
Notch should be spending time looking at World of Minecraft and working how to give our functionality to all users, not just believing the hype that World of Minecraft is crap.
Heck, it's gotten to the point that even the official servers aren't running the default codebase anymore. That alone should tell you something.
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And Admin+ should think about what he is saying before calling him a prick like an 8 year old.
That was said by a member, nothing to do with World of Minecraft staff whatsoever.
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I smell a second discussion here.
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I respect the admins and mods. Don't take it personally.
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Just my point of view... but wtf is up with the anti-hacks superiority complex?
AllNatural complains that griefing is worse with hacks... just kick the losers if you don't like it =\
Griefers will grief with or without hacks.
I think griefers are flooding other servers because well moderated servers boot their tails in the blink of an eye... so really, blame the servers that take care of themselves =P
I think it's simply misplaced blame. Griefers destroy servers, so let's blame the HACKS, yeah, that's right.
This line of thinking reminds me of the same people here in the U.S. that think melting down every last gun in the world would eradicate crime. I couldn't think of anything more ignorant.
Then there's the argument, "Griefers + hacks = my job gets harder, weh!"
Guess what? Being an op isn't SUPPOSED to be easy. =\
It requires constant dedication and perseverance.
If you don't like how hard it is to be an op, then just don't be one. =\
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I was *almost* going to make the same anti-gun argument, but stopped cause I reasoned that the people arguing that "If World of Minecraft didn't distribute the hacks, we'd all be safe" were the same ones who are melting down guns.
The fact is that there were hacks around long before World of Minecraft.. The hacks were the reason for World of Minecraft's inception.
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Everyone just likes taking shots at the guys up top, i.e. any server with dedicated moderation =\
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some of his problem seemed to be that World of Minecraft offers the hacks so openly.
so what if, along side the hacks, the World of Minecraft team offered a very very very very stripped down version of the World of Minecraft script? just the basics like guest, member, admin and the undo ability; to give other servers the ability to take care of griefers so they dont care about the hacks so much.
mind you i havn't got the foggiest beginnings of a clue as to how the World of Minecraft script works so i could just be talking nonsense
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WTF is up with AlLnAtuRalX's name?
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I used to have a username ThAt LoOkEd LiKe ThIs when I was 12.
Frankly, it's just annoying to read. =\
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Just like to throw in that I am also a goon and have been playing since before multiplayer. If he had a problem with us he didn't need to come in and throw personal attacks and be immature.
Here's the thing: This server has cut down on pretty much all grief. The tools we have at our disposal can handle ANY problem. This makes for generally a much better and safer place to build. Before World of Minecraft I would never build anything, simply because it would just get griefed to hell. Now I can freely build and put a lot of work in without having to worry about grief.
If you don't like our server or our hacks; that's fine. Don't use them, don't play here. If you can't stand the fact that people find the game fun in a different way than you, run your own server without hacks, without grief protection, with another silly spawn jail and enjoy. Notch will also be implementing the option to have hacks on the server or not, so that makes it even easier for you.
Minecraft was dead long before World of Minecraft started up. I remember trying to play Minecraft online, there was never more than 3 servers with 3+ people. Then I saw World of Minecraft on the server list. 64/64, holy christ! I wasn't even able to get in that first day. The other servers remained dead and World of Minecraft still stands, active. I can see how some would have a problem with that, we might tend to steal other peoples active users.
I've seen numerous people join our server, rant about how they worked hard on something on a different server, then having it get griefed. I say they don't have to worry about it here and that's that. They stay and play.
Oh wow would you like at that, not one personal attack!
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I was going to come in here and post my opinion, but Syn and SMP basically covered it for me perfectly. :] Thanks guise.
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Being still very new to Minecraft, I'm still piecing together the pieces of the puzzle that is the history of Minecraft multiplayer. I'm only gradually becoming aware of all this tension that exists behind the scenes between World of Minecraft and other servers. Heck, when I first joined I thought World of Minecraft was the only official minecraft server and all the rest were custom-made server offsprings of World of Minecraft. I could never understand the anti-hack agendas of some of these custom servers because my reasoning was: hacks = better buildings; no hacks = worse buildings. I couldn't understand why other servers didn't want good buildings in their server. I was oblivious to the griefing problem apparently tied to hacks because most of my time had been spent playing on the World of Minecraft server in which I had never experienced one instance of my stuff being griefed (and hardly anyone else's for that matter), whereas in another server I made a big underground cavern which someone filled with lava twice! Interestingly it was hacks that made it possible to clear it out the first time (the second time I couldn't be bothered).
Anyway, sorry to ramble, but to cut a long story short, I think World of Minecraft is an amazingly, well designed server with a great team of caring, dedicated staff members that make playing this game not just fun but absolutely addictive! I totally agree with Syntax and SMP and Triddin and H4X and I am impressed with the proffessional way H4X and Geek and others handled the conversation with AllNatuRalX or whatever his name was. Keep up the good work guys. I am proud to be a part of this vibrant creative community :)
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longtime goon / minecrafter, short-time womer with my 2 cents.
There is no way I could go back to vanilla minecraft now. While I had a lot of fun on the original goon servers building epic creations, having to build scaffolding or "jump clicking" massive walls was a monotonous finger-straining chore.. especially if you fell off without a spawn.
The majority of new player's creations were little square buildings or random tunnels and staircases, and if a griefer got to your building it was a massive pain to repair.
When CPColin brought out his custom client ( a version of which I'm still using to this day ), it was a whole new game.
Any player could get to you and help build your epic construction, and gone was the hassle of slowly navigating your way through the mess of buildings to your destination. Float over them and afterburn to where you need to be. Fixing a griefed structure was a lot easier when you could fly around the thing, sprint away to get a better perspective etc. Strangely, I don't even see them as hacks anymore, you SHOULD be able to fly, you SHOULD be able to get where you need to be quickly, regardless of whether our avatars are supposed to be human or not.
Wom is the first server I've been on with a successful and surprisingly simple anti-griefing system, I believe the first thing I said on the server was "I can't believe nothings griefed here."
The reddit admins main concern is how the World of Minecraft client is affecting all the other servers without the World of Minecraft scripts.
I admit, one of the first things I did with CPColin's client back in the day was to hop on the pubbie servers and cause righteous havoc with my new superhuman powers.. no jail could hold me. Nothing was safe.
Perhaps there is a way to modify the World of Minecraft client to only function on World of Minecraft servers? Other hacks would appear to replace them regardless.
Griefing and griefers were around before minecraft, and they'll always
be around. The public availability of the World of Minecraft wrapper didn't create them or empower them.
The only difference now is that there IS a way to stop them,
and it works successfully on World of Minecraft. It may well be that notch updates so that the majority of hacks won't work, but I'd rather he gave the server owners that option, maybe a "Classic / Freeform" trigger.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
edit: lengthy 2 cents, sorry :/
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You make some very good points there!
I do think that it would help if:
a) the World of Minecraft client only worked on World of Minecraft servers, or
b) Notch would code an option for server ops to turn off hacks.
I am leaning more on option "b", because option "a" wouldn't do much to help other servers who are anti-hack.
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Whenever you make a suggestion regarding security and it looks like this:
a) make the client not do something
b) make the server validate something
The correct answer is always (b). Anyone with a background in securing protocols will tell you that client side limitation = fail. It's simply a matter of time until it gets broken.
The implementation server-side cannot be circumvented if it is programmed correctly.
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Finally an outside opinion with intelligence! I think the only thing that would really solve this problem, is if
A. triddin does release the software and people use it
or
B. Notch enables a switch in the servers to allow/disallow hacks. While this could be overridden i'm sure, we would have no part in it.
And i feel the same way regarding minecraft having the ability to fly. I mean, it IS a sandbox as of now.. And everyone knows a sandbox game needs noclip. its essential to building. Anyways, there is my two cents added to your two cents. With Syn's two cents, we have more than a nickel
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It's just like owning a charity shop.
But usually shops don't charge into the other shop's staff room and strt swearing at them for making more money than them, and throwing personal insults at it's volunteer workers.
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I came to World of Minecraft because we're tough on griefing. I didn't know that we'd distributed a client wrapper when I first joined, and when I found out, I didn't use them because I was happy with regular building.
I DID eventually DL them, but use them only to build, and to stalk griefers.
WoM Coins: 8565
He makes some valid points but the fact of the matter is that we weren't actually even distributing it at the start until citricsquid pointed us towards Notch's terms and conditions stating that we could legally distribute it without the minecraft.jar included.
At the end of the day however, we don't distribute it so that griefers can use it for evil. We give it to people because navigating such large maps and building on such a large scale is next to impossible without it.
Flying is almost essential to building in the sky and making huge pixel art. Noclip is important for being able to navigate inside closed structures without damaging the buildings and leaving holes everywhere. Speed is so important. On maps our size, it literally takes 5 minutes to walk one side to the other at normal speeds.
When people tell me that our hacks are ruining other servers because of the griefers are using it, I want to know why isn't anything being done to solve these problems on the server side. We don't have any problems with griefers because we have an adequate permissions system. Addition of an extra 2 or 3 user levels on the official server would do wonders for the protection of the maps. And it's literally a 10 minute coding exercize.
That nobody can be bothered to do that is the travesty here.